On Wednesday June 28th, ATD Ireland community activists Andrew and Christina took part in a webinar ‘Building an Inclusive Europe: Combatting socio- economic discrimination’ organised by ATD Fourth World Europe with the support of the Parliamentary Intergroup on Fighting against Poverty. Along with Andrew and Christina, speakers included Olivier de Schutter- United Nations Special Rapporteur on extreme poverty and human rights, Claire Hedon- French Defender of Rights and Marie Toussaint Green Party Member of the European Parliament. The webinar was moderated by Kahina Rabahi from European Anti Poverty Network.
The first question was directed at both Andrew and Christina;
As an activist and based on your lived experience, could you explain what socio-economic discrimination is and why it has to become a protected ground against discrimination?
Andrew
Thank you for this opportunity to address this room, full of people who can and do make a difference
I’m here today as a community activist from ATD Ireland because I believe change is possible, I really want a better Europe and a more just world for my kids without such poverty and open socio-economic discrimination. We need to break the intergenerational cycle of poverty.
Can you just imagine living in poverty for 35 years or longer, before I was even born. My mother lived in poverty and it passed onto me so it’s way longer. That is the reason I am here; to try and show ye that even though I have gone through this that I still have a voice and I intend to use it so my kids don’t have to go through what I have gone through.
Can you imagine a world where people don’t have to worry about poverty or worry about getting a job because you are from a run-down area. Imagine all the lives you could save, because personally speaking when a man can’t provide for his family it starts to worry him and in today’s society… men are told and believe that they can’t be weak, they can’t show emotion and that is why the male suicide rate is so much higher than any other sex, because they don’t open up and talk about the stresses of life, they hold it all in. So, imagine having a law in place where socio economic discrimination isn’t allowed, I bet the count for male suicide rates would go down, I can almost guarantee that it would.
Discrimination is part of the poverty experience and should be addressed
Someone living in poverty once said:
‘Poverty is not being able to smell the flowers because the stress of life gets in the way.’
This simple sentence makes us very aware of many of the issues facing people living in poverty
Poverty is a multidimensional issue, a lot more complex than only financial, we are facing multiple challenges simultaneously.
I would like to share a link in the chat to a 3-year piece of international research by ATD Fourth World and Oxford University: The Hidden Dimensions of Poverty = this research clearly highlights key dimensions of poverty.
When my wife was in hospital giving birth to our first child, the first person to visit her was a social worker, and because we had a history of addiction, the social worker came down on us pretty hard and this really made my wife afraid that our baby would be taken away by the social worker.
In the end the social worker visited our home and everything was fine.
But should this be the way you bring your first child into the world – with fear and discrimination?
I would like to share a few more short examples of discrimination from Ireland and The UK
The Stigma and Shame of Living in Poverty: Actually hurts me when I’m walking down the street. And because of me appearance, because I can’t go in and buy new clothes when I feel like it and that you know. Like I actually feel people looking at me. It’s not looking at me, it’s, it’s actually looking at me appearance.
It’s just not nice you know. I don’t think it’s fair, you know. The effects it has on me anyway is physical and mental. The judgement hurts, the shame. It is all to me embarrassment.
One person discussed how: “We went to a fast food place in town to get something to eat and we were just standing in the queue and the security came up and approached me and my brother and said ‘Sorry you have to leave, we don’t serve junkies’! Then when we asked to see the manager, the manager agreed with the security guy and we had to walk away because my brother was getting angry. So, we just left and we never went back”.
“I’m from Sheriff Street (an area in Dublin) and if I’m ringing for a pizza, I can’t give Sheriff Street as an address. Instead I give Spencer Doc and it comes straight away. But if I give Sheriff Street, they do not deliver. That’s a key thing around that area.”
We have many more real-life examples like these in our ‘Does it only happen to me’ Report on Socioeconomic discrimination. https://www.atdireland.ie/wp/does-it-only-happen-to-me-the-atd-ireland-report-on-socio-economic-discrimination/
When you live in poverty, we are not protected, we constantly fall through the cracks.
I want a protected law in place because I have this fear that if this law isn’t in place my kids will grow up with the fear of not being able to chase their dreams say they want a certain job but they can’t get it because of where they’re from, what type of life would that be? This is why I fight for this because I want not only my kids but for future generations to be able to chase their dreams, this is my motivation and my drive to get this protected law in place
In conclusion I would like to stress that we really need to act together for change, with no one left behind, and make us again feel proud of Europe and what Europe can stand for.
Christina
Discrimination is the way people are judgemental. For example: The way people speak about their culture or background. The homeless get discriminated against every day. For example: The homeless are discriminated against because they use food banks, for the way they look, where they are from, if you’re overweight, etc. In my life I have been discriminated against because I am a young woman who is overweight and because I live in the homeless service. My husband also gets discriminated against because of his background and for being a Traveller. I will now speak a little about how discrimination has impacted my and my husband’s lives. In the last few weeks my husband has been asked to leave his mental health clinic all because he doesn’t live in Ballymun after being with them for 16 years. He felt hard done after building relationships with the nurses for the last 10 or 15 years and the clinic made the decision to transfer him to another place without consulting him. On the 20th of December 2018, my husband and myself got married, so we had to leave the hostel we were living. We had moved into our own support housing, but after a few months we were asked to leave because both our mental health was bad. So, the homeless services Park Gate Street told us ‘No Couple Beds only single’ so we took it. It was really bad and horrible, but it was a roof over our heads. After a few weeks we were asked to leave, so the only choice we had was to stay in two different hostels. When covid hit it was hard. Now we live in the same hostel after 2 and a half years separated. So, we were discriminated against because we are a married couple and because of our mental health.
Changing the law on discrimination is important because people should be treated the same with no high class or low class. What I mean in general is we should be treated with respect. In this situation people have the right to be treated with dignity and no one should be left behind. No racism or discrimination if people are looking for help. The main reason for me is so children today can grow up in a better community.
Claire Hedon then spoke on how the French equality body advanced the inclusion of socio-economic discrimination in the law. In court cases, to make the case of socio-economic discrimination, there is the ability to use multiple grounds for discrimination and she spoke on the benefit of this. Similarly, she spoke on the issue of intersectionality and how socio- economic discrimination can compound inequalities when someone is experience disadvantage as a result of another aspect of their identity such as gender or race. Further, she addressed the obstacles to implementation even after the ground has been introduced. This is necessary for us to consider in Ireland as we ensure that the possible implementation of a socio- economic status ground in Ireland has a long and lasting impact.
Special Rapporteur Olivier de Schutter outlined systemic and structural discrimination beyond individual interactions. This is expanded upon in UN report on socio- economic discrimination published July 2022.
The next question went towards Marie Toussaint and Christina and Andrew.
Marie spoke on the impact of austerity measures as a precursor to socio- economic discrimination. Further, she spoke on the structural changes policy-makers at the European Parliament and national level can make to combat socio-economic discrimination and fight against poverty.
Christina and Andrew spoke a little about our work at ATD Ireland (beyond the #addthe10th campaign) and how it works to prevent socio- economic discrimination.
Christina
At ATD Ireland we deliver a ‘poverty aware practice’ to social work students and professional social workers. This is where we speak about how the system discriminates against us. The reason I like speaking to social work students about poverty and discrimination is because we need to educate them on how to help young people through the care system. For example, young people can become homeless at 18, if there are no aftercare supports. It is also important to know what young people are entitled to, for example: Housing, social welfare, etc.
We also speak on October 17th. This is the UN Internationally recognised End Poverty Day. On this day we speak up and help families and young people with their voices and so the government can hear us and we can put a plan together and put an end to discrimination for all.
Andrew
Our work at ATD Ireland including the #addthe10th campaign is about genuine participation and building trustful partnerships
“Equal rights depend on the person at the opposite side of the table… The table between us … it’s a hierarchy”. With so many people, there’s a difference between us. I’ve been in these situations with people where they haven’t treated me as equal.
For too long we have not had a genuine seat at the tables of power, when I say genuine – I am referring to having our voices, ideas and aspirations heard, listened to and acted upon.
But people with direct experience of poverty should be recognised as experts on poverty and should be included in any societal debate.
Finding the strength and confidence to speak out is essential, and an early step in any real partnership for creating change- this should not be overlooked
An important action we carry out is based on building trustful relationships with people struggling to support them to speak out
We often use creative projects as a way of building confidence and as an alternative path for people to share their voice and insights
One of our projects in Ireland during the lockdown was to create an online writing group where people could share writing, hopes and aspirations – It restored hope for people to be able to express themselves in a creative way through writing.
They were liberated from isolation and distracted from poverty- the reason I use the word distracted – is that poverty is consistent and the writing set us free from our prison of the mind.
This Lockdown project supported me to be here today as through the value of art and the appreciation of creative process I have learned to express those deep, dark fears that could have dominated my life.
Claire Hedon and Olivier de Schutter expanded on this topic speaking on the different solution states can implement to address socio- economic discrimination- such as affirmative action.
This led us into the Q & A portion of the Webinar. Addressing the question about how we can ensure there is a high level of reporting in cases in relation to SED if a ground is introduced.
Andrew spoke on the need to broadly raise awareness of the equality legislation. He spoke on how we have been doing this in regards to #Addthe10th campaign and outlined the campaigning work we have carried out thus far.
ATD Ireland are part of an alliance called #addthe10th. The purpose of this group is to have socio- economic status recognized as the tenth ground of discrimination in Irish equality legislation, namely the Equal Status Act and the Employment Equality Act.
The addthe10th alliance met with minister Roderic O’ Gorman in June 2021 and submitted a collective response to the government consultation for the review of the equality acts. In November 2022 the #Addthe10th alliance spoke to the Irish government and attended the vote in the Dail on the inclusion of this ground in February.
For over a year we have been carrying out a social media campaign in which over 1000 people all across the world have taken a photo with the missing ‘piece’ of the equality legislation. I feel Ireland could be a lighthouse for Europe and maybe the world as a beacon of hope of adding socio- economic status as a tenth ground.
Christina showed our jigsaw piece and explained the #addthe10th flyer, showing the grounds of discrimination already covered under the equality legislation as well as the ‘missing piece’.
Andrew and Christina also offered their support to any EU level group working on the issue of socio- economic discrimination.
ATD Ireland concluded the event by Andrew sharing this iconic quote from Joseph Wresinski;
I live by this quote I have made it my mantra, “Wherever men and women are condemned to live in extreme poverty, human rights are violated. To come together to ensure that these rights be respected is our solemn duty.”
Thank you very much to Andrew and Christina for their powerful contributions. We are very proud of them and for having the bravery to speak up and share their experiences and that of their peers at such a high-level event. This conference was would not have been the same had we not had their insights in addressing how to advocate to recognise SES as a ground of discrimination and the related issues which will go towards eradicating SED in the long term. We hope that conferences like this will continue to involve those with direct lived experience in a way which is based on genuine partnership and trustful relationships as said by Andrew. Thank you very much ATD Europe for organising this insightful webinar which was attended by over 80 people. Thank you very much also to UN Special Rapporteur Olivier de Schutter, MEP Marie Toussaint, French Defender of Rights Claire Hedon and the intergroup on Fighting against poverty and to EAPN for moderating. We hope to work further with them in the future. We hope that this event will further progress the campaign here in Ireland as well as being a step towards eradicating socio- economic discrimination for all.
